Who's Responsible for Poverty?

My conversation + debate with Chris Arnade and Bryan Caplan on material and social poverty, politics, culture, and personal agency in the United States.

I recently released a podcast interview with Bill Easterly on and poverty in the developing world. Here is a discussion/debate I hosted in 2022 with

Chris Arnade

and

Bryan Caplan

on material and social poverty in the United States that is still relevant and worth listening to. We discuss - and they debate - a number of issues including:

• Economic Opportunity - Lack of Opportunity

• Education

• Drug use

• Suicide

• Meaning

• Tension between personal responsibility & environmental / social impact

• Values of place, race, community, family, religion

• The importance of strong, functional families

• Arnade on a “libertarian hellscape”

• Anthony B. Bradley
  on Incarceration and the Criminal Justice System

• The problems with the current educational system

• Housing & close proximity to jobs - the importance of more construction / remodeling in and around poor neighborhoods

• Drug Legalization

• The connection between law and morality

• Education as a source of class division

• Alternatives ways of making a living that does not require college

• Breaking away from the “one size fits all” educational system

• Religion and and the importance of faith beyond a “crutch”

• Dignity of Work

• Globalization

• Do you need to move to get out of poverty?

• Immigration

Caplan emphasizes

• Immigration restrictions

• Bad economic policies

• Housing regulations

• Irresponsible behavior

He argues you don’t need to be a genius to get out of poverty, but that if you make good decisions - or at least not bad ones, and follow what is often call “the success sequence” - finish high school, get married, have children in that order - your chance of being in poverty is very low.

Arnade argues that poverty is not so much an absence of material goods, but an absence of meaning. We need to look at poverty and social breakdown not only through an economic lens, but also through a cultural lens and how the environment impacts people. Many low income people lack tools in their “toolbox” for life success. Arnade also argues that some of the key values - family, place, church - that are essential for flourishing have been eroded by the elites and government policies.

Arnade argues that the political right gives the poor too much agency in rising out of poverty, and the political left does not give enough agency. Caplan holds that both the right and left don’t give the poor enough agency.

Lots of good conversation here from two thoughtful people - and a good model of how people who disagree can debate with respect.

NOTE: The debate was broadcast live so after the hour mark I thank everyone and we end the live section —but it’s not over - the discussion continues on, so keep watching.

This was originally recorded in November of 2022 at the PovertyCure Summit.